Aqidah Gems From Imam al-Tabari's Works! Part 2 - Refuting the Mu'tazilah on the Subject of the Attributes
Posted by Abu.Iyaad on Tuesday, January, 04 2011 and filed under Articles
Key topics: Ibn Jarir Al-Tabari Mu'tazilah


When a Jahmite is bold enough to lie against Allaah that He is not above His Throne, and does not have the attributes of face, hands and eyes (all as attributes of His essence) despite Allah having affirmed that for Himself and the entirety of the Salaf (and the very early Kullaabis and Ash'aris) having taken all of that with acceptance (with negation of tamtheel and without any ta'weel and tafweed), and similarly when a Jahmite belies the Messenger (alayhis salaam) in these matters, then it is of no surprise that this Jahmite will think anything of lying upon the Salafi scholars and attributing to them what they are free of or twisting their words upon other than what they meant or decontextualizing their statements in order deceive the unsuspecting audience. This is not surprising to say the least. So we have one of these such Jahmites who tried it on with the following:

First of all note how there are not any references given, as in page numbers and editions, which is common practice with these people when it comes to these particular types of citations. But it makes sense, if you want to commit a crime, you've got to make sure you make it as difficult as possible to unravel, so you can't really fault the Jahmee for this. They need to make it as difficult as possible for people to go and verify for themselves and to see what is actually being said. They drop a few quotations, the audience who does not know any better, laps it up like milk, and the shyster will even receive a few pats on the back through the comments section, "Hey, well done, I am learning so much!" So this is the type of operational scam that is going on here.

Further, many of these people themselves are complete ignoramuses, they don't even have a clue about their own theology, but they think they know it. And with this flawed, deficient understanding of their own theology, they then approach the sayings of the Salafi scholars, only to completely misunderstand and misapply them. So this is the type of clown we are dealing with here. For an in-depth illustration of what has just been mentioned in this paragraph, please study the antics of this clown which we covered in detail. That will give you a standard benchmark with which to judge the circus performances that these Jahmites are doing these days.

Now this shyster has brought five or so matters in the above post and we will try to address them one by one inshaa'Allaah.

Imam al-Tabari Refuting the Mu'tazilah on the Subject of the Attributes With a Great Refutation!

Another example that this shyster and fraudster tried to bring by clipping the speech of al-Tabari and decontextualizing it - in order for it to appear other than what it is, and in order to deceive the audience into thinking that al-Tabari is refuting the belief of Ahl al-Sunnah that Allaah speaks as and when He wills and that He has many instances of speech that are other than each other (because they are tied to His will) - is the following:

-He says in another place, "There is consensus of the people of Tawhid from the Ahlul Qiblah upon the incorrectness or falacy of qualifying Allah ta'ala with Harakat (movement) and Sukun (stillness)."

And also:

-Imam Tabari says in At-Tabsir fi Ma'alim ad-Din, "And whoever rejects what we said regarding it, it will be said to him, "tell us about the speech which you described that the Eternal is Mutakallim, did He created it in His Essence or created it in something else or subsists in His essence? "If he believes that He created it in His Essence then he has necessitated that His Essence is a locus for creation, and this is Kufr according to everyone."

Again, no reference. It's deliberate. But as we said before, it makes sense that when you commit a crime you make sure it is difficult for others to unravel. So lets take a look where these two quotes are from and what al-Tabari is really saying and who he is really refuting. We will quote from al-Tabseer Fee Ma'aalim al-Deen, the very book that this shyster is using to deceive others. We have with us a 1996 first edition print published by Dar al-Aasimah, Riyaadh, with tahqiq by Ali al-Shibal. You can download and view the four pages that are relevant in this PDF file.

Both the above quotes appear on page 202, and it is in a chapter that begins on page 200. The chapter is called, "The Statement Regarding the Difference Pertaining to the Qur'an", and here al-Tabari is speaking of the differing which occurred on the matter of the Qur'an.

He then states (p. 201) that there are different views on the Qur'an, and mentions the sayings a) that it is created b) that it is neither created nor the creator c) that it is not permissible to say "it is created" or "it is not created". He states that the correct view is the second one, and He explains that Kalaam is an attribute of the Creator and is not itself created or the creator, and that attributes do not stand on their own, but they are established with the one described with them. And here he is refuting the Mu'tazilah, who claim that Allaah can be described with attributes which are established in others. Al-Tabari goes on to explain (p. 202) that if this (view of the Mu'tazilah) was correct, it would be correct to ascribe to Allaah every attribute that exists in the creation, and thus we could say Allaah has colors, tastes, smells, motion, rest, and that the one described in reality with all of these things is the Creator and not the created. It is here where the first of the two quotes that the shyster has brought is found (first paragraph page 202):

Likewise speech (Kalaam), it is an attribute, it is not established except in the one described with it. And when that [matter] is like that [i.e. attributes can only be established in the entities described with them], it is then correct that it is not permitted for an attribute to belong to the created whilst the Creator is actually described with it, because if it was permitted that the attribute belong to the created yet the Creator is described with it, it would then be permissible for the Creator to be described with every attribute belonging to the created. Hence, when the created is described with colors, tastes, smells, motion, rest, then the one described with colors and all of the attributes we have mentioned is the creator and not the created [in whom they are actually found], and in the united agreement of all of the monotheists from the people of the qiblah and others that this is a corrupt saying is what [also] makes clear the corruption of the statement that the Kalaam (speech) which He, the Lord of might, is described with, is in fact the Kalaam (speech) of other than Him.

As you can see, this is completely different to what this lying shyster, with his deliberately calculated deception, is trying to present, by clipping, changing and decontextualizing the speech of al-Tabari and trying to use that as a basis to deny Allah's attribute of majee' (coming), Ityaan (arriving), istiwaa (ascent), nuzul (descent) and the likes, all of which al-Tabari affirms and in fact in the very same book, he refutes the Mu'tazilee argument used to deny these attributes. So here is what this fraudster isolated and presented:

-He says in another place, "There is consensus of the people of Tawhid from the Ahlul Qiblah upon the incorrectness or falacy of qualifying Allah ta'ala with Harakat (movement) and Sukun (stillness)."

Look at how he has lied upon al-Tabari, and how he doctored al-Tabaris' words. You can see what al-Tabari is actually saying in a wider context. Al-Tabari is falsifying the Mu'tazili principle that what are said to be Allaah's attributes are not established with Allaah's essence, but in others besides Him. They held onto this principle in order to deny Allaah's attributes. And this would mean that Allaah is described with every single attribute in the creation (including, colors, tastes, smells, motion, rest, and so on from every genus of attributes). This means that Allaah is qaadir (powerful, able) not with power established with Him, but with the power established in others besides Him! And the same with knowledge, and hearing, and seeing and speech and so on!

Then al-Tabari continues:

So when that is [demonstrated to be] corrupt, and it is validated that it is His speech (Kalaam), and it has already become clear what we explained before that Kalaam (speech) is an attribute that is not established except in the one described with it, which validates the [saying] that it is an attribute of the Creator, and when it is like that, then it is validated that it is not created.

Here al-Tabari is affirming that since speech can only be established in the one described with it, who is the Creator, then it means that the attribute of speech is uncreated. Then al-Tabari proceeds to mention the argument against the one who refuses to accept whatever has preceded. It is in this passage that the second of the two quotes above from the depraved dishonest shyster and fraudster actually appears:

And whoever refuses [to accept] what we have said regarding that, it is said to him: Inform us about the Kalaam (speech) which you have described that the Eternal One is mutakallim (one who speaks) by way of it, [that it is] created. Did he create that with Himself as something created in His essence? Or in other than Himself? Or established on its own?

If he claims that it is His [act of] creating it in His essence, then He has made it binding that His essence is a repository for creation, and to all people this is kufr (disbelief).

Explanation of this passage:

Let us pause here and see what is being said. Al-Tabari is outlining three situations, the first of which is the upon the claim that Kalaam (speech) is makhluq (created) to the Mu'tazilah. If this is the case, then where did Allaah create it? In His essence or other than His essence? So here, if they say in His essence, then this is rejected by all people in that created things (in this case Kalaam, upon the view of the Mu'tazilah) should be created in His essence. It is advisable that you read our article on the phrase "hulul al-hawaadith" (see here) which will clarify that what is denied for Allaah is the acquisition of attributes He never had before, or that Allaah creates things in His own essence. These are the hawaadith denied for Allaah, and this is the angle from which al-Tabari is saying that all people deny this, if this is what the Mu'tazilah claim.

Then he continues:

And if he claims that it is His creation, established on its own, it is said to him: Is it then permissible that He should create a colour that is established on its own, and likewise, taste and feeling?! If he says no, it is said to him: So what is the difference between you and between the one who makes permissible what you have refused in colours and tastes being established on their own, and who rejected what you permitted in speech (Kalaam) being established with His self [whilst in reality being found in others]?! Then he is asked about the difference between that and there is no difference.

Explanation of this quote:

Here al-Tabari is arguing against the viewpoint that Allaah created Kalaam as a standalone entity, meaning it is not established in another entity, but it is a standalone entity, so it is neither with Allaah and nor with any other created body, rather it Kalaam (speech) is a standalone entity. So al-Tabari is saying here in that case, tell me, is it permissible then that Allaah creates a color or a taste or a feeling which is standalone. What al-Tabari is getting across here is like saying that just like you see standalone entities, like a chair, or a tree, or a leaf, or a child, or any object for that matter, can you see color, taste, or speech as a standalone entity, as in can you see it walking down the road or sitting somewhere, like you can with other standalone entities? And so when he is posing this question, the Mu'tazilah will obviously say "no", because this is not possible, since these attributes are not standalone entities, rather, they need entities to exist. So when this is the case, al-Tabari then demands an explanation as to what is the difference then between this view [of the Mu'tazili] and between the view of another person who says that colors, tastes, and feelings can be standalone, but speech (Kalaam) cannot be standalone. In other words, this person holds the opposite view of the Mu'tazilee regarding speech and other attributes. So al-Tabari says explain to me the difference between you and this person, there isn't any!

Then al-Tabari moves on to the third possible situation:

And if he says: Rather, he created it (the speech) established in other than Himself, it is said to him: So He created it in other than Himself, yet it is an attribute of His?! If he says, "Of course", it is said to him: Is it then permissible for Him to create a color in other than Himself,and yet He be the one who is coloured, just ast He created speech in other than Himself, yet He is the one who speaks it, and likewise He creates motion in other than Himself and He is the one who is the one moving by it? And if he refuses this, then he is asked to [explain] the difference. And if he permitted that, then He has made it binding that when He - exalted is His remembrance - creates motion in other than Himself, it is He who is the one moving, and when He creates a colour in other than Himself, it is He who is coloured. And this, to us and to them, is kufr and jahl (disbelief and ignorance).

So this is very clear, al-Tabari is demolishing the Mu'tazilee argument regarding Kalaam (speech) in particular, but it applies to the other attributes as well which the Mu'tazilah deny through this principle. Then al-Tabari concludes with a statement (end of page 203):

And in the corruption of these meanings [i.e. the false scenarios] which we have described the clear evidence. And when there is no angle to created things except for some of these angles (so described above), it is correct and valid that the Kalaam (speech) of Allaah is an attribute of His, it is neither the creator (Himself) nor the created, and that the meanings of "createdness" are negated from it.

This means that in Allah having the attribute of speech and Allaah being one who speaks (as and when He wills) does not make His speech created from any angle at all, rather all meanings of createdness are denied from His speech.

Hammering the Stake into the Doubt of this Deceitful, Lying, Calculated Shyster

It is befitting that we send this despicable, lying, scoundrel squealing on his way by citing the aqidah of al-Tabari on the Qur'an which is nothing but a powerfully driven stake into that fake and false doctrine of "Kalaam Nafsee" and "two Qur'ans" which the pseudo-Ash'aris and Maturidis are upon. Here it is, through al-Laalikaa'ee in Sharh Usool al-I'tiqaad (1/206-207) [and this statement is found in al-Tabari's other work Sareeh al-Sunnah (Maktabah Ahl il-Athar, 1985, tahqiq al-Badr, p. 24)]:

The Creed of Abu Ja'far Muhammad bin Jareer at-Tabari

Ubaydullaah bin Muhammad bin Ahmad informed us - reading to him - he said: Al-Qaadee Abu Bakr Ahmad bin Kaamil informed us, saying: Abu Ja'far Muhammad bin Jareer said:

The first of that which we begin with regarding that is the Speech of Allaah, the Mighty and Majestic and His Revelation, since they are from the meanings of His Tawheed.

So what is correct of the speech regarding that, in our view, is that it is the Speech of Allaah, the Mighty and Majestic, it is not created in whichever manner it may be written or when it is recited, in whatever place it may be recited, whether it is found in the heaven or upon the earth, however it may be preserved - whether written in the Lawh il-Mahfoodh (the Preserved Tablet) or in the copies of the children of the Qur'anic schools, or inscribed on a stone and written on paper or leaf, whether memorized in the heart, or spoken by the tongue.

Whoever says other than this, or claims there is a Qur'an in the earth or in the heaven other than the Qur'an that which we recite with our tongues, and which we write in the masaahif (copies of the Qur'an), or who believes this in his heart or who conceals such a belief in his heart, or who professes it with his tongue, then he is a kaafir whose blood and wealth is lawful and who is free from Allaah and Allaah is free from him - due to the saying of Allaah, lofty be His praise:

Nay! This is a Glorious Qur'an (Inscribed) in Al-Lawh Al-Mahfuz (The Preserved Tablet)! (Al-Buruj 85:21-22)

And He said, and His saying is the truth:

And if anyone of the Mushrikun (polytheists, idolaters, pagans, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) seeks your protection then grant him protection, so that he may hear the Word of Allah (the Qur'an).. (At-Tawbah 9:6)

So He informed us, lofty be His praise that it is in the Preserved Tablet, written, and that it is heard from the tongue of the Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) and it is a single Qur'aan, heard from Muhammad and written in the Preserved Tablet, and likewise, memorized in the hearts, and recited upon the tongues of the shuyookh (old) and the children (young).

So whoever reports or quotes from us, or fabricates a saying against us, or claims against us that we say anything other than that, then upon him is the curse of Allaah and His Anger, and the curse of those who curse, [and the curse of] the Angels, and mankind, altogether. Allaah will not accept any effort or goodness from him, will expose and disgrace him in front of all of the witnesses on the day that the excuses of the oppressors will not benefit them, they will have the curse and they will have the evil abode.

How come we did not see this amazing gem on that fraudster's blog post?! Al-Tabari cursing whoever tries to attribute to him a view other than this?! at-Tabari, walillaahil-hamd has cleaned out the rat-holes of the neo-Jahmites with these concise words, may Allah have mercy upon him - indeed the Jahmites are a disgraced, humiliated, forsaken people, as they always were - and this is why they wander blindly in the valleys and pits, thinking they are upon guidance, blind to it, always characterized with the lowliest of attributes, deception, twisting, distorting, clipping, fabricating - against the Salafi scholars who are free and innocent of them.